Michael Howard - MP for Folkestone and Hythe

was not quite as incidental as he sought to portray, and for the analysis that he gave of the problems that we face as a consequence of the series of events that he explained so lucidly.

I go along with much of the right hon. Gentleman’s analysis. We walk step in step, but we part company when it comes to the final conclusion as to how we should cast our votes in the Division Lobby this evening. In truth, I do not believe that the penetrating analysis that he gave the House in the course of that speech supports the conclusion that he purported to have reached, but be that as it may, it was an outstanding speech and the whole House will be grateful to him for what he said.

The Minister said—this was the only thing on which I agreed with her—that we have discussed these issues ad infinitum. That is true. The reason why we have done so is that the Government have, ad infinitum, refused to see reason on these important matters.

I will seek to deal head on with the point made by the hon. and learned Member for Medway (Mr. Marshall-Andrews). I am sorry that he has apparently reached the conclusion that he will not be with us when it comes to voting on Lords amendment No. 36. The damage that has been caused by the injury that he acknowledges takes place is that, as was said clearly by my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham (Mr. Hogg), as a consequence of these arrangements, we afford our citizens a lower degree of protection than the United States affords to its citizens. If anyone is to be extradited from the United States,

evidence has to be produced that is contestable in the courts of the United States, but there is no comparable provision for extradition from the United Kingdom. That is the damage. It seems insupportable that this House, which is the guardian of the liberties of our citizens, should accept a lower degree of protection for the liberties of our citizens than is afforded to citizens of the United States under these arrangements.

Mr. Marshall-Andrews: I entirely agree with the right hon. and learned Gentleman’s point about reciprocity, and an injury seems to have been done to us in that regard. However, let us consider the damage that has actually been done. If the standard of protection that we are affording to our citizens is the same as that which we are perfectly content to give to them in respect of many other countries in the world, how are we failing to protect their interests?

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Mr. Howard: There are two answers to that. First, there is the question of reciprocity itself. When the Government and Parliament of the United Kingdom assess the protection that they afford their citizens on extradition, it is reasonable for them to insist on comparable—I would argue identical—protection from the countries to which extradition is contemplated under the arrangements.

The second answer to the question asked by the hon. and learned Gentleman—I am astonished that it is not clearly apparent to him, of all people—is that the European convention on human rights applies to the other countries with which we have made the arrangements to which he refers. The convention affords a degree of protection on extradition to and from those countries that is wholly absent from our arrangements with the United States. For those two reasons, we are discussing not simply a lack of reciprocity, but a lack of reciprocity that has serious consequences for the liberty of the subjects of the United Kingdom.

Chris Bryant: As far as I understand it, the right hon. and learned Gentleman is suggesting that reciprocity is the absolute principle. However, I wonder whether there is a higher principle than that. According to his argument, France provides more protection for its citizens than we do. However, surely we believe that the French are wrong to do so.

Mr. Howard: That is the case in respect of the United States, but not in respect of other member states of the European Union or, I believe, of the Council of Europe. However, I am not here to argue the pros and cons of the attitude taken by the French Government to the liberty of their citizens. I am concerned about the liberty of the subjects of the United Kingdom.

Despite the quality of the analysis that the right hon. Member for Southampton, Itchen gave to the House, he seemed reluctant to support the Lords amendments because he said that it would be inappropriate to do fundamental damage to the statute dealing with extradition. Whatever the rights and wrongs of that argument, it does not apply to Lords amendment No. 36, which would simply de-designate the United States and cause no fundamental damage to the statute at all. I hope that he will take that point into account when he ultimately decides how to vote on Lords amendment No. 36, at least.

Mr. Denham: I entirely understand the right hon. and learned Gentleman’s point, and I was grateful for his earlier generous comments. However, my other argument applies to Lords amendment No. 36. I do not think that we are doing great damage by applying to the United States of America a test that we have been prepared to apply to many other countries.

Mr. Howard: That is the argument that I have been trying to rebut, and I am sorry that I have thus far not been able to persuade the right hon. Gentleman of its merits.

I will make only one other point, because much of the ground that we have covered has been canvassed before. The response of the Government, unlike that of the right hon. Gentleman, to the arguments that have been put against them has been thoroughly wretched, inconsistent, contradictory and increasingly desperate. Despite the words of Baroness Scotland that are on record, they have refused to acknowledge that there is no reciprocity. Indeed, the Prime Minister is on record as having denied in the House that there was any difference at all in the evidential arrangements applying to this country and to the United States. Sometimes the Government say that there is reciprocity, yet sometimes they say, as the Home Secretary seems to have done, that perhaps there is not reciprocity, but that it does not matter.

When it suits Ministers, however, they are only too happy to rely on the importance of reciprocity. On 11 July, Baroness Scotland resisted an Opposition amendment that would have required a judge deciding on extradition to take account of the fact that the United Kingdom authorities had decided not to prosecute—that is the forum argument that we have been discussing—by saying:

“In the interests of justice, the United Kingdom took the view...that extradition could proceed where the person was wanted for conduct committed at least partly in the United Kingdom, providing that the UK had the same jurisdiction to try the conduct if it had occurred outside the UK.”—[ Official Report, House of Lords, 11 July 2006; Vol. 684, c. 654.]

When it suits the Government, the argument for reciprocity is important, convincing and compelling, but when reciprocity is inconvenient to them, it can be dismissed with a wave of a peremptory hand.

The injustice of the present arrangements has been the subject of widespread comment and concern inside and outside the House. In the Financial Times last Wednesday, Sir Martin Jacomb, a former chairman of the Prudential insurance company and a highly respected figure in the business community, drew attention to their unfairness. He said:

“parliament has a duty to safeguard the liberty of the individual against the State and this is a case where it must act quickly.”

I commend his words to the House, and urge right hon. and hon. Members on both sides of the House to vote accordingly.